Its an annual song competition held among the member countries of the European Broadcasting Unions. Each member country submits a song to be performed on live television and radio and then casts votes for the other countries' songs to determine the most popular song in the competition. The contest has been broadcast every year since its inauguration in 1956 and is one of the longest-running television programmes in the world. These years contest was won by controversial Conchita Wurst. Conchita the drag persona is a man who likes to dress up as a woman with a beard.
I must say, that I'm very disappointed with this choice because this reflects the direction in which Europe is heading. Promoting freaks(guy dressed up as a woman) in TV is not healthy for our culture. I think we are going too far with the tolerance concept, trying to say that something disgusting is normal.
In future, I would not like to see my children watching something like that, thinking: "She won, maybe I should try something like that too".
Maybe this is just my intolerance, what do you think?
As far as I recall – it’s a singing competition isn’t it? So if he sang the best, why shouldn’t he win? In 2009 there was Verka Serduchka (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJHfhq6VOsg) and most of the people found him funny. And they are said to be the worst Eurovision song ever (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu5kgSeZHfw#t=142). After seeing that performance I can tell why.
ReplyDeleteI don’t care how he (Thomas Neuwirth) looks, if only he can sing (while entering singing competition). I don’t know whether he was the best or not, I can tell that he can sing and that’s enough for me. I think media is paying too much attention to all the controversial stuff going on around the celebrity, forgetting about the most important part. Have you ever seen “Warsaw Shore”? That’s people you should be afraid of and pray that your child won’t be like them!
You have full right to have different sexual preferences, outlook or believes, but you don’t have the right to name others “freaks”. Most of them are harmless – “ordinary people” are those you should be afraid of - http://www.upworthy.com/watch-what-this-make-believe-girl-means-to-1000-sexual-predators?c=reccon1 (PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION!)
I think it's a very bad idea to start a presentation by insulting people - calling them "freaks" and "disgusting". I really don't feel there is a place for such offensive language in a school presentation. The very first rule of having an honest discussion with people: don't insult them.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I don't see how the fact that you find something "disgusting" is in any way relevant. Your personal aesthetic judgment is not grounds for banning people from a public view. This post is about Conchita Wurst, who indeed is a stage persona created by a drag artist, but from a tone of your post I gather that you have similarly offensive views on whole groups of people. I'm too scared to ask what you think about trans* people (seriously - don't tell me!).
Let me also be very clear that I don't find Conchita Wurst in the least disgusting, nor apparently does most Eurovision contest voters. She's very talented and really quite inspiring. You don't have to "be normal" to deserve being recognized for your talents. Her winning is a huge inspiration for a whole slew of people who fall outside of the norm in one way or another.
You say that you worry about young people following her, but... what's the harm if some of them do? Lets assume for a moment that there indeed are some kids that got inspired by Conchita Wurst to one day become artists who use drag in their art. What's wrong with that? Men playing women on stage is at least as old as theater. Drag Queen culture exists at least since the 1940s. People always played with gender roles. Here's a video of a Polish interwar period star Eugeniusz Bodo performing in drag ("disgusting", isn't it?).
Besides, I think some people take themselves way too seriously. There is nothing inherently female about a dress or male about trousers. Just a few centuries ago men wore ropes much more resembling a dress than resembling a pair of trousers, and until quite recently woman in trousers were stigmatized. Those norms are just a function of our culture in a particular period of time, and it's only natural that people (especially artists) are playing and having fun with this. What I really can't understand is the hatred coming from the other side.
So summing up: yes, I really do thing it's just your intolerance.
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DeleteI think tolerance and political correctness is going too far. I'm not insulting anyone, i'm just disgusted. I can be, I will be and there is nothing wrong with that.
Delete"Your personal aesthetic judgment is not grounds for banning people from a public view. " - I'm not banning anyone, I'm disappointed with the choice.
We can see what happens when society is too tolerant. Look at France, Denmark, England etc. people are beaten up by muslims in their homelands. I'm sorry to say but people like you are responsible for that.
Aprat from that I have to say, the song was performed very well.
Saying that you are disgusted by someone because of their gender identity is as inappropriate as saying you are disgusted by someone for being a jew, or that you find somebody's mix-race marriage disgusting. Keep those kinds of opinions to yourself, other people don't need to be exposed to your hatred when it comes to their personal lives. I don't think you get that those are real people with real feelings and enough problems on their own.
DeleteThe logic of your argument about Muslims totally escapes me. I'm responsible for Muslims beating people because I respect gays, lesbians and trans people?
I'd agree with Ludwik here, very aggressive style of presentation.
DeleteThere is no limit to tolerance and there should not be !
Nobody forces anybody else to watch Eurovision (for example I never watched it) and I found out about this year's winner from Internet, thanks to such reactions as in this post. This is actually funny, coz the more people trying to prove to other that something is wrong the bigger advertisement it gives. I would never knew about Conchita if not for such posts.
The boudaries are very thick and depends on too many things: culture, environment... for muslims for example (sorry but I suppose it is the easiest) would be feeling very bad just because of the woman wearing "normal" clothes - is this a red thin line for you?
DeleteYour presentation surprised and sadden me. And I know that whatever I will write, it still does not convince you to change your opinion. I'm surprised that the otherness activates such aggression in many people. It saddens me because I think that diversity is not a threat for our society, culture etc. (somehow I find it hard to believe that after watching the show of Conchita Wurst my son declares that he becomes a drag queen to succeed) – for me it's a sign that we are on a higher level of civilization and we create more humane world, because we allow each of us to find its own way, we are able to accept and appreciate the fact that we differ on many issues. The most dangerous is the lack of tolerance and the belief that only what we represent is normal and appropriate.
ReplyDeleteDressing as a woman with a beard is a sign that we are on a higher level of civilization...
DeleteThat's my opinion. I have a right to it and you do not need to be sarcastic.
DeleteI have to admit that of course I heard a lot about this year contest but... I haven't heard any song. And I;m still not convinced to do it. Maybe if I'll have some free time I'll try to check it but for this moment I don't even want to be a part of this discussion since as Piotr has been written - this subject cause a lot of agression. And in case of such topics or contests I'm always wondering why people are watching this if they don't like it and have some problems with it? Don't like - don't watch. It's easy. A lot of people are criticize others but I can't understand what is the purpose. Why we can't be more tolerant? For eaxample I don't want to be a man but I also don't want to prohibit the other woman to change her sex. It is her decision. If I don't like this idea I don't have to be a friend of her. Other example? I hate Wojciech Cejrowski. I don't care about his private opinions but he simple irrtates me. So if there is his event in TV I just change the channel. It's simple, live your own life as you want and let the other people live their live.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think that if anything I do not like it do not ogladam this.
DeletePS. I like programs Wojciech Cejrowski
Well this was quite interesting to watch, and it doesn't really bother me that a guy with beard wants to do something like that, this was clearly a better sung song than Cleo's. What bothers me is that newspapers etc calls him a woman with beard. It just seems like minorities want to conquer majority, and since I'm in majority of society who perceived this performer as a guy with beard wearing a dress, I would really enjoy them to call it the way most people perceive it. I often wonder why people who are so tolerant, and have to point that at every step of their life, will not tolerate that others don't care or are intolerant, isn't that intolerance itself aimed at majority? I think it is.
ReplyDelete1. Conchita Wurst is a female character created by a man named Thomas Neuwirth. When he is in character he is referred to by this character's name and identity. Similarly when Sacha Baron Cohen is interviewed by journalist while he's in character of Borat they refer to him as "Borat", not "Sacha". We do this with every character - Big Bird is referred to as "Big Bird" while in character, not "Caroll" (the puppeteer), Pee-wee Herman is called "Pee-wee Herman", not "Paul", etc. I don't understand why in this single case this becomes a problem for some people.
Delete2. If Conchita Wurst wasn't a character, but a real transgendered person with a female gender identity, your argument would be even more ridiculous. Every person have a right to decide about themselves. Nobody is "conquering" you by making their basic identity known, or by respecting someone else identity. They are deciding about themselves and no minority / majority have any say about that. They are not oppressing you by just being who they are.
3. I'm "tolerant" in the sense that I think every person have a full right to be who they are and be happy, as long as they are not hurting anybody else (in the real sense). That seems to my as a common sense. I don't think however it is okay for people to attack other people because of their race, religion, nationality, sexual orientation, gender identity etc. I don't see any contradiction between those two statements.
I must admit I'm not shocked at all that a drag queen won the Eurovision contest. Moreover, I'm sure he didn't win it because he sang beautifully (to be honest, I don't like the song at all). Naturally, people like controversions so he certainly got extra votes for being different. Personally, I don't understand this person, but I tolerate him. I'm not going, however, to listen to his music and certainly I won't be one of his fans.
DeleteFor a moment I wanted to get into this conversation, but after reading your comment:
ReplyDelete"Look at France, Denmark, England etc. people are beaten up by muslims in their homelands."
I really see no point in doing that. You have your own believes and nothing from I could say to you now will not change that. It's sad. That's all.
I also thought for a while about replaying to the author of this really short post but there where two things that convinced me that I don’t have to:
Delete1. As you already mentioned - the level of authors arguments as well as his radical believes;
2. There are some really good responses (like the one written by Ludwik) which are longer, better prepared and better thought out then the original post.
The thing I must admit is that writing a post like this (short and controversial) was a really good way to generate a traffic around it - now it has the largest number of comments from all presentations from this week:)
Personally, I do not want to touch this topic. Everyone has their quirks, everyone can be called freak, and I think that as long as they do not cause harm to another person, we should show respect and tolerance.
ReplyDelete"Show me a man - I'll find the appropriate paragraph"
PS: I have one tiny little advice for you - if you want to use Google Translate, you have to learn how to do it.
I had the same feeling like you (last line of your comment), while reading first post, but... I don't want to judge anyone.
DeleteJakub read the comment under Agnieszka's post.
DeleteI don't mind if anyone uses Google translate for a support, it can be good opportunity to use better word, but I really don't like if there is a text that was not read by the author before publishing.
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DeleteYes, I know what are you talking about. There are many mistakes and typos in Mikołaj's other presentation. I was also refering to that as well.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSomething else bothered me in this Eurovision contest a lot more - apparently we fear female nudity a lot more than we do fear a girl with a beard. That is if you look at the commentary to our contestants performance.
ReplyDeleteI think that the Polish act was really great, it combined Polish tradition for which we are well known in the world and Polish girls, also with a reputation of being beautiful.
I would rather consider two questions more about the contest itself:
1. Would our act won if Cleo had beard?
2. Would Conchita win without her beard?
For me it's about the shock factor being more important than vocal abilities. Fifty years ago people were calling for removal of blacks from television, and black-white marriages were considered disgusting. 15 years ago it was the same story with gays but in both cases we found out you don't become black or gay from looking at them on television as a kid.
Sorry, but I don’t care about that either. It’s funny, interesting, surprising, strange... but probably wouldn’t become a serious topic of my conversations with friends. Everybody have right to do what they want, dress they way the want, chose music/songs they like... until of course the don’t hurt or violate other peoples freedom. It doesn’t violate my freedom – I don’t care. It was purposely designed to catch peoples attention and it did.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to Conchita, for me as a woman, there is a different interesting part of the story. Philosophical aspect of how TV stars and beauties are created.
If Conchita hadn’t have a bird, would you noticed it’s a men not a woman? I really doubt that... He wouldn’t look much different the a regular singer or other stars we see on TV.
For me the the most interesting conclusion form the whole story is that beauty is now synthetic and artificial – fake hair, lashes, breasts and makup. Anyone (even a men) can become a beautiful woman – that men will admire and woman will want to imitate. That’s a truly sad and puzzling.
I think that everyone is a free man and has the right to do what he wants, of course, if it does not harm other human beings.
ReplyDeleteI am tolerant and people like him do not bother me.
As I wrote above, if it bothers anyone then why does he watch this show?
"Do not like - do not watch" Agnieszka quoted and I really subscribe to it.
If all people from all over the world were such it would be very boring.
I do not understand why this guy have changed his sex but I respect him as a man.
I feel the same - but I would not be very happy when millions of teenagers (and may be including mine, in future ;) ) wanted her to be their idol. I know it does not go in pair with tolerace very well but still I have a strong feeling that people becamed insensitive for many of messages until they are very shocking - and still, this kind of a promotion makes me sad - as I suppose not only voice allowed her to win (i.e. it was very helpful to interest many people with something shocking the audience)
DeleteIf millions of men started to wear dresses, they would become normal and acceptable male clothing. Nothing shocking about it :) The same already happened with women and trousers.
DeleteBottom line is, Conchita Wurst had the best technical performance in this contest (yes, i watched most of this years' Eurovision :) ). The whole discussion about tolerance of LGBT is too far fetched and out of topic. He is a drag-queen, and i haven't seen/heard this heated discussion about drag-queens in Poland since like forever and that's his style. Whether one likes it or not is not the case here - this is a singing contest, not a tranny-parade. And the guy deserved the win because he was way more skilled than his competitors.
ReplyDeleteOk I’m conservative person, I do not like that kind of I even don’t know how to name that thing. Really I do not thought that someone who has a medium to low voice, ordinary song would won a competition that is all about music. For me the judges where in the wrong contest. They should go to Idol or some other crappy program not about music but about promoting yourself. In that kind of program that person would be in place. You can call me intolerant but this was not a good performance and man with a beard looking like a woman is nothing else than poor child that was not accepted by his parents. Sad, really sad but this was not a performance for first place in program that is about music.
ReplyDeleteGood topic!!!
Mikołaj, your article makes me disappointed. I hope you haven't thought that every man, who visit this blog, agrees with you.
ReplyDeleteThomas Neuwirth won the Eurovisia Song Contest, because
people like his music. He is very talented person. I think that his victory may show us something more important than you mentioned. It shows that individualists are more valuable than people who are stick to norms. This means that artists should start think outside the box.
On the end, my answer to your question: Yes, I think that you are intolerant.
You touched very controversial topic. However, I believe that opinions can be expressed in a different way. There is no need to insult other people. I think a better idea for presentation would be to describe the situation and give opportunity to speak to others. So strict focus on negative emotions can’t cause anything other than protest. Aggression arouses aggression. Are you intolerant? According to me, yes. Not everyone is tolerant. Judging by your comments, any discussion with you doesn’t make sense, so that's all from me.
ReplyDeleteIn part, I agree with you. Unfortunately europe goes toward the promotion of otherness. Often I wonder why minorities have greater rights than the average citizen. Why are people with different views require different behavior from me. Overall, I have nothing to people who are different, have different needs. But why diversity is promoted as a good thing?
ReplyDeleteAt eurovision wonperson just a little different perceiving the world. But why is it promoted? Why is it considered normal?