Have you ever thought how long will current form of democracy prevail? Nowadays a lot of people believe it’s the best and probably the final form of government but is it really true?
Actually it’s not. Many communities, especially smaller ones decided to experiment with another form of governing. One of the results of those experiments is direct democracy, also called pure. What makes it so pure? Mostly the fact, that it aims to completely eliminate the need of politicians and representatives. Its concept is pretty straightforward - everyone from a given community meets together and decides about the law by voting. Unfortunately it’s almost impossible to implement it in its original form, since it would be difficult to gather a few million people in one place. There were some attempts to bring it to life though and probably the best known country using it at the moment is Switzerland.
Public voting in Glaris, Switzerland, 2016
Another new form of democracy is liquid democracy. Even though it’s not as simple as direct democracy, it tries to combine the benefits from both pure and representative democracies. Similarly to the classic approach the society select politicians to represent them but unlike now they are free to revoke their vote anytime they want and choose new ones. This way the government is constantly changing and adapting to a country’s situation. Although it seems perfect, it doesn’t seem to be doable with current infrastructure and the costs of maintaining this form of governance are huge.
Liquid democracy example
XXI century and the Internet revolution brought us another concept - E-democracy. It’s still a young idea and it’s still not as clarified as the previous ones. No one is still sure how such a country would look like but it seems it’s trending towards the Internet-controlled direct democracy. Even though it’s fresh, people are already working on the implementation of such a structure. One of it is the Smart Contract system which is a part of Ethereum cryptocurrency platform. It allows to “securely” vote without the worry of tampering with votes. It’s one of the many though and I’m sure we still have to wait many years before this kind of system will be used in real country.
At the end I encourage you to watch a short TED video about new forms of democracy and even more futuristic approach made up by the speaker.
Q
- Do you think the future societies are still going to use democracy?
- Do you think the digital voting is a good and secure idea? Why/why not?
- Have you ever used the Internet services provided by our government, i.e. Trusted Profile? Do you think they are a step towards the better future or a complete failure?
- https://www.britannica.com/topic/direct-democracy
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delegative_democracy
- https://www.ethereum.org/dao
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-democracy
I think that what we have now isn’t democracy. There is no connection between people and politicians. Politicians don’t work for us and aren’t our representatives. It’s illusion that by voting we choose people, who represent our values and will make decision profitable for us. Average person has no influence on what happens and how law is shaped. Moreover many decisions are good for minority not majority. So it’s not a big difference if we call it democracy or in other words. There is a small group of people, who decides and using artificial intelligence, digital voting wouldn’t change it.
ReplyDeleteHard to disagree that being able to choose the representative is only illusion of democracy but I believe the idea of artificial intelligence described in the video is to eliminate representatives completely. Of course we can argue that such a system will need some kind of "maintenance" but if implemented well, it could get rid of ruling caste
DeleteI'm not really able to predict or even try to guess what's going to happen to democracy in next years. Answering to e-democracy, I think that's great idea, a lot of people are not going to vote because of the queues or just don't want to leave home during these days. E-democracy would save a lot of time for busy people and make it more secure. Of course this idea is very difficult to prepare and maintain, someone could be able to hire hackers to make the mess with the votes what might be very hard to spot, but there's always a risk. About the last question, I've never used any of those services before.
ReplyDeleteYou are right about hackers but I believe the risk could be greatly reduced if e-democracy required to use e-id card which is already available since march. I think it's a great step in carrying our identity to the Internet which used to be a problem few years ago and was the main reason why e-government infrastructure was developing so slowly.
ReplyDeleteIt is hard to say what will the future bring, especially in politics. There is a trend for one approach and in the next couple of years this approach changes. Personally, I hope that democracy will somehow survive those changes and will even become stronger. After all we share a common good and even though we sometimes don't feel like a part of society we still are one of them. The digital voting is in my opinion a very good idea, especially due to the fact that voters contribution for example in Poland is not that great and might significantly increase with such method. The blockchain approach seems like the only way with current technology stack to make this idea come true. I am looking forward to see such thing in action. I have never used any services from the government, but I heard something about them. I don't believe that this is a step towards the better future as these services are non open-source projects and it is hard to predict if they're good indeed.
ReplyDeleteYou're right that apps made by government should be considered public domain and completely open-sourced, since it directly affects our personal data and privacy. The problem with governments is that they don't consider any social movement real as long as they don't organize any demonstrations and non-IT people don't see difference, so open/free software is still niche among most of citizens.
DeleteIt's hard to predict how it will look like in the future. I know many people who are determined objectors of democracy per se. The main argument is that majority is foolish and democracy is by definition governance of majority. Personally I have no view on this matter. I understand arguments of both sides and both seem to be rational. I’m a big fan of a digital voting concept. More and more people use digital devices and it’s natural consequence of technological progress. Currently I hear many accusations concerning counting votes. E-voting would solve this problem. As you mentioned, blockchain technology would bring huge value in this field. It gives us complete transparency without the need of trusted third party. I did use Trusted Profile and it works well. Today you can start a business without leaving the house (almost).
ReplyDeleteThe problem with argument about "foolishness of majority" is that no one has yet provided any valid and reasonable limit value of stupidity. We are all fools for smartest 1% of population but it doesn't actually mean we should relinquish our right to vote.
DeleteDo you think the future societies are still going to use democracy?
ReplyDeleteYes but maybe in changed form. We will utilize technology at first, you mentioned Smart Contracts and Ethereum ledger, which is one of the most exciting technologies recently. Democracy has some disadvantages but still it's the best way to rule the country.
Do you think the digital voting is a good and secure idea? Why/why not?
Yes, especially with Ethereum smart contracts, which were proven to be secure. And actually, blockchain has been utilized already in many countries as a technology that is secure and is used in many ways.
Have you ever used the Internet services provided by our government, i.e. Trusted Profile? Do you think they are a step towards the better future or a complete failure?
No, but I have to create my Trusted Profile, so I will give it a try :) Yes, they make many processes easier, for example to register your company. And I think it will be further developed so we will see :)
I strongly suggest to try Trusted Profile :) I was sceptical at first but it actually comes handy from time to time and looks like a solid piece of software
DeleteI think that future societies will use democracy. I just don't know in what form. I think that the greathest problem of democracy is that people that don't know the subject are voting and making decisions and I don't know if the idea presented in a video addresses this issue. The other thing that I noticed in this kind of voting is lack of debate and change of opinion. Another thing is that I can't imagine a model that can predict my every answer.
ReplyDeleteI'm a little bit sceptical about digital voting systems. They seem great but I read niebezpiecznik so I don't think there is a trully secure way to do this or maybe there is an enough secure way? I think that in Estonia digital voting is a fact? Internet services like trusted profile etc. are here to make our lifes easier and that is a good thing.
For hundreds or even thousands of years we relied on handwritten signature as the only and "secure" method of identification. I wouldn't really be worried about security, because it'll probably be more secure than what we have now.
DeleteIt seems to me that it’s a matter of time, but finally, any country will come to that. The conviction about the changes and reluctance to introduce them may lead to countries being uncertain and undecided. This is understandable, but the need for change will be greater for some time.
ReplyDeleteI think it would be a good idea and more citizens would participate in the elections. But I dont really believe that it will be safe. We hear a lot about hackers who are getting better and more and more developing their abilities and skills. It is necessary then to carefully and carefully refine the security system, although we still will not have 100% security certainty.
I didn’t use it myself, but it makes it easier. For example, applying for evidence. There are situations in which we can not go to the office in person and submit an application. Fine-tuning the security system, constant checks and updates of the security system will definitely give greater guarantees, and citizens will feel safer and more willing to use such opportunities.
It's true that hacker skills are getting better and better but it's two-way relationship - the better hackers are the better security guys we have.
DeleteAnother concern is quantum computing, which may make current cryptography useless but I believe it's too soon to worry about that
1. At the beginning I have to admit that I'm not very interested in politics. I think democracy will continue in the future. I'm not entirely sure of its form.
ReplyDelete2. I like this idea, but I am not sure if it is a safe solution considering the development of cybercrime.
3. I did not have to use these solutions yet, but I think I will definitely want to test them in the future.
It's ok, I think it's perfectly fine not to be interested in politics as long as you realize no choice is a choice as well.
ReplyDeleteCybercrime is definitely the threat but with e-ID we would be able to physically secure our digital identity so I believe it won't be vulnerable for most of attacks. Also we should remember that cybercrime is mostly about social engineering and stealing credentials. We should be fine with e-ID and proper digital education
I think democracy itself is very good concept and will be use for a long time, however I think this was already in use 2000 years ago in Greece and I'm sure there were sure that it will stay forever, and all of a sudden ... Middle Ages :)
ReplyDeleteConcept of e-democracy is just and extension of pure democracy with the use of modern means, and I wouldn't be as bothered with the security especially using block-chain as I would be with the ability of a mass to make correct choices. Take Brexit as an example, lack of proper information made people to vote opposite to what the would vote otherwise.
I have been using government internet services for a long time and (if they work) they were very helpful. I definitely think this are a step forward into bright future :)
I believe that the current version of democracy is very skewed. Please analyze the electoral law in any European country - there is an electoral threshold everywhere. A curious case of a lack of democracy is the way of electing members of the European Commission. I believe more and more in the truth of the anarchic slogan: "If democracy could change something - it would have been forbidden a long time ago."
ReplyDeleteResistance to manipulation is the most important requirement for an electronic voting system. Blockchain technology seems to be promising in this application.
I have already used a trusted profile for remote handling of an official case. Despite the harshness of the system, jet is better than going to the office in person.
I think that mostly, future societies would use democracy as a first option, as generally we really love this illusion of choice. Moreover, the question is - as humanity, do we have anything better than democracy? Definitely, it's not a perfect system but maybe the most sufficient for majority of us.
ReplyDeleteI think that digital voting should be used normally in countries. Maybe, more people might vote then. Strongly believe that it will be secure enough then, because without that it don't have any sense.
I have never used any of Internet services provided by our government. It seems to be a really interesting idea, but I haven't read anything about that recently.
It’s hard to predict what will future brings. I’m not interested what is going on in politics. Digital voting can be not secure enough (hackers, data processing etc.), but it’s great idea, because is much more simper to vote via Internet than in traditional way. Trusted Profile made me able to send PIT to tax office, of course it was last day to do that
ReplyDeleteI honestly hope people will give up democracy in the future, as it is a bad system, as it’s based on stupid assumption that the majority is always right.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think that’s always the case, as most people are stupid, not reasonable. In my opinion, in democracy the country does not have an owner.
Why should the politicians who find themself in power temporarly, let's say for 5 years, care to leave the country in a better position?
I wouldn’t mind having a king, as he would treat the country, as his possession and would want to leave it in a better condition for his children.
I've heard about the concept of direct democracy, as I had a German teacher from Switzerland. He showed us the leaflets, that citizens receive before each voting.They contain the description of the issue being voted on, as well as the arguments for and against.
I think digital voting is a good idea, as it would safe a lot of tax payers money, which are spent on elections.
I’ve sent tax returns via internet, it was very convenient. I hope the possibilities expand in the future, so we will have to spend less money on government employees.
Winston Churchill said “The best argument against Democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter” I fully agree with that sentence. The problem is that nothing better was invented yet. I don’t trust any politician in Poland because most of them are liars and they are simply stupid. They don’t care about their voters and they care only about themselves. If I could change something in democracy, I would have regulated ways of choosing people for positions like Minister or similar. It’s unacceptable for me that one Minister could be responsible for two or three different areas and he know next to nothing about any of them. About e-democracy – I don’t believe in this form of voting. There is too big area to change results without any control.
ReplyDelete1. It is hard to say. We have countries that have democratic system and we have those that don't use it. I think that it is going to be the same as it it right now, some of them will still use that system and some will not.
ReplyDelete2. I think it is a very bad idea. It is not a big problem for someone to hack the voting system. The digital form should be available for people who want to vote but live abroad but mostly it should be the traditional way to vote thru paper system.
3. I have never used such services. I think it is a complete failure because as I wrote in the first paragraph you can easily hack such service and in the future it will be even easier.
Maybe we could implement pure democracy in digital form? Currently voting is too time consuming. The current democratic system is fiction, pre-election promises are one, post-election reality is the other. When you go to the election, you wonder which party you want to harm more, instead of which will actually improve the functioning of the state, because there are no such. I have no hope. I am surprised that anarchy has not prevailed yet, but maybe we're slowly heading towards it or simply towards dictatorship.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how will political system look like in the future but I believe that it can change for better becouse now days we live in some sort of paralitic democracy where everything is dictated by desire of posseing more money and power by individuals in the driver's seat. I would love to see specialist working with their teams on adventeguse prospect of a country. People who can describe their actions with proper arguments and actually change for better becouse they will do they job from passion and righteousness. I never used e-platform for voting but I think this is change for better since right now after elections all votes are counted manually which is a joke in my opinion.
ReplyDelete1. I guess yes. There is hard to tell me but even today our democracy has changed over the years so maybe in the future there will be still a democracy but modernized.
ReplyDelete2. In my opinion it’s not the best idea because it’s too risky. Even today banks sites are getting hacked. For me elections are too important thing to become dependent on machines.
3. No I have not and I’m not a huge fan of it. I don’t really like giving my private date into the registry. Moreover I don’t really see a sense of e-IDcard (e-dowód). In Polish law you don’t have to have your id-card with you.
Yes of course. Ideas such as liquid democracy are very interesting, but impossible to implement in the near future, mainly due to the huge costs. Besides, those who rule us will not be enthusiastic about the system in which they would not be needed. Digital voting is a great idea and will certainly contribute to the increase in the number of voters in elections. I also believe that digital voting could be safe. I use Trusted Profile and I think that every technology that makes life easier for people and in addition, it can help reduce already a huge number of officials is simply great.
ReplyDeleteWinston Churchill said:
ReplyDelete"Many forms of Government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe".
So one day there will probably come a time when democracy will become obsolete and will be replaced by a new form of government. But I trust to return to grace.Digital voting is not good, let alone safe. In my opinion, we should vote in the traditional way - the card and the ballot box. This ensures the anonymity and validity of the vote, which is something that we will not get with a digital vote. I have a trusted profile, but I have not used it yet. I haven't had a chance :)
It could be polished visually. And I think that this type of applications are a great alternative to waiting in the railways in offices and not a nice service.
1. I'm not quite sure what will bring the future. It seems that democracy is quite succesfull way to rule the country so we could leave it as it is.
ReplyDelete2. Digital voting is preety good idea since we could vote for new parlament and president each week. I'm really looking forward to see it in action. As it is mentioned in article for digital voting we would use blockchain technology. It is really secure technology and it takes a lot of money to manufacture votes.
3. It depends on the institution. Some of them are failures but some of them are really good quality services. I think goverment should invest in such services. It brings people less stress, goverment saves the money and every petition is well documented (stored in goverment databases).
I think the democracy cannot be implemented in all societies – in case of many of them autocracy is more efficient and attempts to changing this result in the complete collapse of the given country. Libya is the best example, now it is split into several parts and not united anymore, there is no stable government and the fightings are not over. Western countries were not successful in overthrowing Assad in Syria and right now most of the country remains under his control – his defeat would mean the reign of chaos and terrorists (it is lesser evil, although some of his methods of fighting terrorism, like chemical weapon usage are controversial,) To conclude democracy will not work everywhere. For Poland I do not see any better option – I am pretty sure our society would not accept a dictatorship (we do not have a tradition of such form of ruling in our history)
ReplyDelete2) Digital voting may be a good option e.g. for disabled people. I am a bit worried about computer systems implementation though (just recall what happened in 2014, when counting votes took almost one week due to the imperfection of the computer system),
3) Yes, I did. Very convenient. I think our driving licences are also digitalized these days, I often forget to take it.
Artur Mikolajewski
DeleteDo you think the future societies are still going to use democracy?
ReplyDeleteYes. But I think the form will evolve. How? I can't really tell, I don't have enough knowlege about society and politics to predict how the democracy will evolve. Hopefully it will evolve into fair and safe system for everybody.
Do you think the digital voting is a good and secure idea? Why/why not?
Yes, I think it's a good and secure idea. Currently there are systems like that in testing or development based on blockchain which provides secure and transparent systems to transfer data. Systems like that can provide absolutely secure and safe from manipulation voting possibilities.
Have you ever used the Internet services provided by our government, i.e. Trusted Profile? Do you think they are a step towards the better future or a complete failure?
Yes, I have used Trusted Profile. It is very useful. I think they are step towards better, easier future with less time spent waiting in queues :)
1. Do you think the future societies are still going to use democracy?
ReplyDelete2. Do you think the digital voting is a good and secure idea? Why/why not?
3. Have you ever used the Internet services provided by our government, i.e. Trusted Profile? Do you think they are a step towards the better future or a complete failure?
1. I think no. Democracy is wrong system at all and I don't understand why you choose only from a few forms of one system. People should compare and take under a consideration many systems to choose the best one. Democracy as a system where two unsober people have two times more votes than a politology professor.
I accept democracy only in certain forms, i.e. as in Cossack sich, where people where dividing into 10-persons groups and was voting for the best among them. Next these who where voted where dividing into 10-persons groups again and voted for the best one. And so on and so on untill the one the best remains.
In present times it could seem a little different and with use of internet, but some similiar system could work. Or maybe at least if people would vote not for political parties but for single people. And the candidates shouldn't have a budget from government for their commercials. It is nonsense because they focus then on smiles and promises, not on concretes.
2. I am afraid all such things can be hacked.
3. Yes, I used a Trusted Profile to fill in my PIT form. I think it is a very good step. For me as most as possible administrative procecures should be done automatically. At last we live in 21st century in a civilized country, not in 3rd world or 50 years ago.
PS: What is more, what if an uneducated mass (or educated, but the majority in their own speciality, not connected with the examined issue) would decide for issues like complex economy, or vaccination policy, etc.? The answer is - a complete disaster.
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