On 11th
November we will celebrate our independence day in Poland. I would like to present
to you some examples of how it is celebrated in other countries.
USA
4th
of July is probably most recognized day of independence in the world. As you
may or may not know, people of USA tend to celebrate this day very loudly, with
lots of fireworks, flags, festivals and fun.
This photo was taken in NY 2013 under the Statue of Liberty.
Here you can see children in a parade – Americans like parades and it is very fascinating but maybe we will talk about this some other time J
Also you
may find a lot of photos from 4th July parades here:
Some NYC 4th July videos:
So as you
can imagine they love their country, they celebrate independence etc… but do
they know some facts about their own history? This question sounds not so
brilliant, but please check this video that I have found during my research:
Spain
12th
October 1982 – this is the date of first Spain national day. I had read that
Spanish people celebrated their independence day on many other days e.g.: 7th
October, 9th December etc. 12th October became the national
day of Spain on 27th November 1981 as a royal decree, it was named: Día de la Hispanidad.
As you can
see also in Spain people celebrate this day in a special way.
Below you
can see a parade in Madrid
Flamenco –
Spanish national dance J
England
23rd
of April – the beginning of history of this day we have to search in 13th
century. A red cross – which was the symbol of crusade, was used by Genoa as a
symbol of the country. The English king paid a tribute to Genoa to use this
flag to sail safely in the Mediterranean. The red cross was also a symbol of St
George who is a patron of England. It is hard to say when exactly England started
to celebrate this day as some sort of national day. I have found some
information that it started about 1222.
Here you
can see some photos from that day:
Here you
can see some videos:
Poland
We have 2
days which we may call the national day. 3rd May and 11th
November.
In May we
celebrate our constitution day and in November we celebrate our independence
day. I’ve pasted some videos and pictures below:
You can find some photos here:
Photo below
is from 20th century :
The Polish government sworn in on November 18, 1918, from J. Moraczewskim at the helm. From left seated: S. Thugutt, J. Moraczewski, J. Pilsudski, L. Supinski, L. Wasilewski.
Summary:
Looking at
pictures and videos from countries like USA or Spain I think that they are much
happier than we are. If you look at their faces you can see smiles, in opposite
of that when I look at our countrymen faces I see grim mood. I’m wondering why
we are more nostalgic. We are as a nation, reluctant to be happy, we do not cherish
these days with happiness. I think that we should be happier, we have our
freedom finally, after so much suffering and fighting. We should be happy but
we are not.
For me
these days are very important. I try to find some time to display the flag, and
to learn something about my ancestor’s history. I want to know why they did not
abandon their hope in Poland, why they
fought against all odds to make me a free man. Maybe because of these thoughts
I feel reverie, and maybe all other people who seem to be sad, they all think
about this – or they should J
And now
maybe some questions to start our discussion:
You all
know how we celebrate our Independence Day and Constitution Day. What do you
think about other nation’s celebrations?
What do you
think about the whole idea of Independence Day or any national day?
Do you know
or have experienced any other country national day?
Sebastian, I fully agree with you: we do not cherish these days with happiness. I guess that this can be an effect of a wrong conviction that laughter, fun and fireworks do not correspond with importance and seriousness of these events. But, to be honest, I find something else more terrifying that spoils reflective mood of the national days. When recalling recent celebrations, I have an impression, that national holidays, especially 11th of November is used by politicians to play political games, and to prove who is the most patriotic citizen and who is not (of course almost always it depends on political preferences). Both events celebrated on dates mentioned by you changed a lot in our history. Therefore I reckon that they never should be treated as a pretext for creating divisions among society.
ReplyDeleteExcept that I'm not Sebastian I support your opinion. Politics try to take possession of thus days, so important for our culture.
DeleteSławomir, I am very sorry for my mistake!
DeleteAs for the topic: I think that a lack of happy celebrating can be an effect of our approach to a national history: we focus on a suffering and a martyrdom, we do not know how to be proud of our political and military successes and achievements. And the fact is, that the independence regained after 123 years, is a huge victory. That is why it would be natural to memorialize it with a joy not sorrow.
The point I'd like to make in regards to the national holidays topic is that thankfully both of those days are bank holidays – and that makes me very happy! :) When it comes to the way in which we celebrate I think Piotr is right. Our history and tradition is mostly related with exhausting wars and occupation, so our government probably thinks it’s best to organize very formal celebration. And we seams to love parades too, but only if they include tanks and soldiers... I wouldn’t judge the ways we celebrate – it’s all adjusted to the (most of) society expectations and is organised by people chosen by that society in democratic elections. What you choose is what you get – I would say :)
ReplyDeleteKasia and what do you think about other nations celebrations? Would you found yourself more happy ie. with USA way of celebrating national day?
DeleteKasia, you said our government thinks it's best to organize very formal celebration because our history is related with wars and occupation. But shouldn't we be much more happy becasue we don't have it anymore? I belive tanks and soldiers are very nice part of parades and we shouldn't exclude it. But why do not add to the joyful elements, highlighting the fact that now we are free? I think everyone would be much more interested in history and celebration if it could be less sad and political..
DeleteI'm really very, very happy that on those days I don't have to go to work or school... I don'r really care how are they celebrated. It is of course nice to be able to watch those great fireworks - like in USA... But if I felt I'd like to celebrate differently, then I would :)
ReplyDeleteAccording to your topic and previous comments, I think that we should mention one more thing which is connected with your subject. In Polish schools, system of education in quite boring. Let’s concentrate on History lessons. I don’t know how it was at yours schools but in mine, history was the most boring subject. The teacher was also boring, we were yawing all the time because we had only heard: numbers I mean dates, dates, dates and once again dates. OMG! I suppose that, this is one of the reason why teenagers do not really know the history of our country. They do not appreciate the Independence Day because they don’t know its value. I think, that people do not care of it because when is November 11th I don’t see many of flags, which should be displayed in our houses to show our respect to the homeland.
ReplyDeleteSad but true.. I have exactly the same impression and I don't have good memories from school. History should be presented as something fascinating, related to us, our families and predecessors. But it is not and I'm not supprised that citizen awareness is dropping every year.
DeleteI had only for one year very good teacher of history. He was able to interest us all in history of WW2. All other teachers where boring.
DeleteIn my family home - the flag is posted up in every national holiday. Unfortunately, we do not participate in any official ceremonies because these events usually end up disturbances or fights.
ReplyDeleteI had the opportunity to be in the U.S. on 4th of July, but that is not the only day when Americans show how they are proud of the fact that they are Americans. I the school, which I attended, there was the custom that every morning before classes, the flag was drawn on the mast and the anthem was sang. After the end of the day, the flag was lowered and there was a special formula to be said, which thanked for another successful day. Children there are just raised so and taught that their country is something important.
This is also the problem of our families and homes. How often do we hear that people are proud to be Polish? That they are glad that they live in Poland? That it is such a beautiful country? And how often that this bandit country that only robs us? How often do we hear that someone says that you have to escape from here?
Iza, are you proud you are Polish?
DeleteWhen I've started wondering if I am proud to be Pole, I realized that thinking about pride in English rises slightly different (more positive) feelings than thinking about it in Polish. And when I've read the polish definition of the "pride" I've noticed the additional meanings of that term: 1) a narrative work based on historical events and 2) a sad song, an elegy. It's probably a little to far-fetched, but it could be that we are hardwired to think about pride in terms of national pride and sadness by our own language.
DeleteAnd no - I do not feel pride just because I'm Polish. For me it's like being proud to be blue-eyed.
Albert, as far as I know calling Polish a Pole is rude, but may be I'm wrong.
DeleteCould you provide some source or example to support this belief? I thought it's quite normal word, and when I started searching the web I found only this.
DeleteEven Wikipedia reffers to us as "Poles" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles), so I don't believe it is rude..
DeleteIt is rude, in translation it referes to somthing like little man - in exact - "polaczek". It is used to offend someone who is from Poland. Most common in UK...
DeleteIn my opinion we are very sad nation. We don't know how to celebrate.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Amercian people should be an example snce they even don't know what they are celbrating... But still as Sławek mentioned in the article - they are much happier than we are.
Why? I think Piotr has pointed the clue - national holidays are used for political game. I really don't like it. It makes me mad and makes me not feel like celebrating.
I'm not very good at history, I never was since it was difficult for me to remember all dates, facts and names. I believe it can be caused also by history lessons and how they were managed in my school. But now, when I'm older and not forced to get any knowledge I try at least read about the history and be aware what happened and what we're celebrating. I still have a problem with dates and names but I trying to be conscious citizen of my country. And I think we should be happy - we have our homeland, our language and a history whe should be mostly proud of. But we're not. As a nation, we love to complain, argue with each other and to emphasize boundaries, especially political. It is stupid and said. And I think it's not gonna change soon. Until we won't change it, we will not be able to celebrate as we should - with hapiness and proud.
The topic is sooooooo big, so I would like to concentrate only on comments and questions. There is no point to compare Independence Day in Spain, Poland and USA, because there are so many cultural differences. It has been already said - we are very sad country in the terms of celebrating bank holidays, but look at our past - we were fighting for most of the time! We are very proud as a nation and very conservative. Great influence of catholic church on ordinary life, aversion to change and believe that everything is going to be worse.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcQdJyo1B-8 - sorry that it’s in polish, but I couldn't find version with subtitles.
I can see that there is a difference in understanding the world “independence” and “freedom”. Most of the polish “patriots” don’t believe in the freedom of believes. You have to be from Poland, you must be white, straight and should be Catholic (don’t you dare be a Muslim!!!). I hope that there are more people like this soldier:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hHUQ0Lp6v4
Normally I don’t like generalization, but look around you. Do you think that the most of the country is tolerant? That they know that Independence doesn’t mean hatred to others, but to cherish that we have a freedom of choice? I would like to end with Hodding Carter quote: “There are two lasting bequests we can give our children: one is roots, the other is wings.”
"Do you think that the most of the country is tolerant?" - No. And you exactly described why in your sentence about "patriots".
DeleteMovie you attached - amazing! It restores my faith in people.
I'll repete the question Aga asked, what does being tolerant have in comon with being patriot?
Deletein my opinion, explonation that we have a right to be a sad and always injured people, because a big part of our history that war is a little silly argument, because I do not remember any war, but still many people in the age of mine are simply sad, because it is easier.
DeleteLet's see how many times you will hear: "Polska dla Polaków, nie dla kebabów!" on Monday... That was the most common thing I heard last year.
DeleteRealy Jakub? I'm asking because I was not there last year.
DeleteI agree that, especially in the last few years, our Independence Day celebration became more of a political fest between left and right wingers. And that fact alone is depressingly sad. We have to watch battlefields on a day when we should sit back and reflect about our nation struggle or celebrate 'properly'. It is bad to that extent, that I don't care anymore about the celebrations (or rather - tug of war in the streets and TV) and just stay home and enjoy a day off.
ReplyDeleteI have the same feeling! I think we should celebrate our Independence Day, but I just don't want to take part in it, because it looks like it looks - sadness, political wrangling, unhealthy pride, sometimes even hate.. I prefer to stay at home too.
DeleteI'm currently in USA (and that's why I forgot that this is a week when we work on the blog, ouch!) and I must say, I'm glad I'm not in Poland for 11th November. I don't know what happened to our celebrations, but this day stopped being about celebrating our history and present Poland, being proud. It's suddenly the day when we have groups of people walking through the streets and showing off how they're the only proper Poles to live in Poland and others are not welcome. That's actually saddening - why can we just be happy, everyone, for living here and making Poland a better place? I think maybe some of us don't make it better with their presence :/
ReplyDeleteTo add insult to the injury - I still have no idea or rather - no true understanding of what exactly happened last year. There were two parades, some people got beaten by others, quite possibly the beating was just about the fighting and not about politics but the media took it political. And then the TVN truck got burned which seemed even more political. But after all, I have no idea who was fighting with who and what for. All I know is that it should not happen this way. The celebrations should be about pride and happiness, not about taking sides.
I was in France for their celebrations, but I was very little then and didn't attend any parades or parties this day. The only thing I remember where the fireworks near the Eiffel Tower - and they looked amazing!
I like it very much when on many our national holidays there are military parades. I like looking at soldires marching. The whole idea of Independence Day or Constitution Day is, in general, very good thing, but I would expect to have more information about why these days are celebrated. I don't need that knowledge (since I believe I know more less what is it about), but it would be good to utilize such day to increase knowledge of society.
ReplyDeleteAbout our mood on those celebrations. I think its not our custom to "have fun" on national days since we believe it's "big" and "important" thing, so we should be serious.
I've been in US on Independece Day. In one word it's a peoples holiday! People are celebrating (many of them not excactly knowing why:) and people are having fun. In Poland I have an impression that the Country in celebrating but not the society/people.
I guess we need to learn that it's OUR (peoples) holiday!
November 11, since 1920 has been celebrated with military parades, mass for the intention of the homeland and the ceremony at the state level. For many years (1939-1989) our nation was unable to celebrate it at all. Only after the fall of communism, the holiday has taken on special significance and it is a day off from work. It is not considered in a category fun as in the U.S., which does not mean it's not celebrated reverently. Marshal Pilsudski in 1926 gave a military nature to ceremonies. As Polish people we are attached to our history, and it seems appropriate to continue to do this and no other way.
ReplyDeleteDo not forget that November 11 is not only a military parades and political speeches. November 11 is also the thousands of white and red flags in the streets, independence running and concerts and entertaining activities organized by the Warsaw Uprising Museum and Museum of the History of Polish. This is the time to get to know a piece of our history. Just point your browser to "the celebration of 11 November" and you will find many opportunities to spend the day. So I don’t think that we can’t celebrate this holiday in an atmosphere of happiness.
I agree with nearly everything that is written in the comments above. I believe that Poland is a country of sad people, I think that we don't know how to celebrate properly and that our politicians have this special ability to convert everything into politics.
ReplyDeleteBut on the other hand I've heard several times, that there are many young people taking part in the "official" Independence Day parade, and they do this to celebrate (happily), to show their joy and to feel as a part of a nation.. So maybe there is a chance that in a near future all things we are complaining about here will disappear:)
I actually like the way the independence day is celebrated in Poland.
ReplyDeleteFull disclosure, I'm basing my opinion solely on what I see in the media(okay, the internet) so to amuse myself and because this late into the week noone is going to read it anyway I'm going to asume it's 100% representative of reality.
The thing is that I've recently suffered through Halloween and Guy Fawkes Night in short succession for the sixth time and so in contrast I can really appreciate how respectful our celebrations are. I like that people are a bit sad. The day really is about our history, not about getting drunk and barbecuing.
The team spirit building excercises the celebrations have turned into in other countries are making me a bit uneasy. Yes, people look happy but it makes me think of the Two Minutes Hate from "Year 1984" only slightly tweaked, Two Minutes Love.
I mean in my mind a great country is built by citizens who take ownership of the shared goods. Paying taxes, voting, being helpful to strangers, being polite is much more important than emanating {insert country name here}ness one day a year.
I totally agree with You, no one is going to read this :) furthermore I agree with the rest of Your post.
DeleteAnother topic is, why year after year we hear about actions of mentally injured specimens like this:
http://dziendobry.bialystok.pl/hitlerowskie-pozdrowienia-na-cmentarzu-zolnierzy-zamordowanych-przez-nazistow/
I'm simply speechless
I write this comment on November 12th, which doesn't reflect good on me, but on the other hand gives me benefit of hindsight. Once again a large group of people decided to celebrate the Polish Independence Day by devastating the capital of the country they claim to "love". This time there wasn't even any opposing manifestations, so it is more clear than ever, they wasn't "provoked" into it. Nevertheless they almost burned people at "Przychodnia" squat alive, burned the famous Warsaw rainbow, attacked the Russian embassy, devastated streets and store fronts. It was a huge manifestation of hatred for people that are different or think differently.
ReplyDeleteThat's at least part of the reason I'm not a huge fun of Polish Independence Day celebrations. I think "nation" is just an abstract contract created by people and I don't think it is by itself all that important. It has its place, as long as it is useful for people, but as we all know it doesn't always bring the best in people. Sometimes it brings the worst. Don't get me wrong - there's nothing wrong in celebrating your country. But too often "patriotism" is combined with hatred for other nations or people that doesn't confirm to some arbitrary criteria. That's why I'm weary of people and events that I perceive as potential nationalistic. I think there are far better ways to support a place you see as your own, let it be a country, a city, a single street corner or the whole planet.
So... I guess you can call me an Independence Day skeptic.
I believe that every national holiday of the anniversary of independence are important holidays, which is mostly celebrated around the world. I like how it looks like in the U.S., with more people in it engaged, theese day looks very colorful there. The idea of such days is to remind us what happened before, what our ancestors did and celebrate all together. As another example of celebrating such day I put 2 videos from Turkey (29.10.2013)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8vRejwS5kE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btCMngz8CRI