1. Why do you think this is happening? Do you think people have a natural tendency for trolling? Not all people, but some of them – yes. I think that it is a matter of people's personality - some like to make others upset, perceiving it as a chance to rise their self-esteem.
2. What stimulates such behaviours (maybe this is not only about a person's character, but also comes from papers, TV news, etc.)? I think that media (especially television) use a language of hate more and more often. There is no place for a meaningful debate, there is no space or willingness to consider arguments of the opponents. Media exploit aggressiveness, vulgarity and offensiveness, because it is salable, more catchy and increases a viewership significantly.
3. Have you ever been a victim of trolling (or have you trolled someone)? No, I have not, mainly because I do not take a part in the internet discussions, and bullying is something against my rules and values.
4. Do you see any positive sides of trolling? If we understand trolling as the phenomena which main aim is to provoke unnecessary quarrels, using personal attacks and insulting others, then I think with a great certainty that there are no positives sides of trolling.
5. Do you think that removing anonymity from the internet would counteract trolling? If so, do you see any downsides of revealing your identity? Maybe some of the trolls would decide not to create offensive and harassing comments. However, I think that it will not stop people from doing it completely, because many of them derive a real satisfaction from insulting and offending. On the one hand anonymity is good because we can say what we feel or think and we are not exposed to social ostracism and conventions. On the other hand, and what it is proved by the trolling phenomena, without any external control people offend and criticize others and will be doing that. It can be linked to disability to supress negative emotions. Considering all of that I think that the lack of the anonymity in the internet is not that harmful and can lead to situations where people will behave responsibly.
Removing anonymity from the Internet would help to fight against aggressive trolling, but only to an extend. The main problem, I believe, is a nature of Internet itself - its distance. If troll sits thousands miles from his target - it does not really matter whether he use real name or fake one. Such troll feels he's unreachable = untouchable.
Still the best strategy to fight against trolls , and I experienced that myself a couple of times, is not to feed them. If you're paying no attention what so ever to troll - he gets bored and leaves eventually.
Sometimes, what we call trolling, could be a start of an interesting and potentially useful debate. But such cases are rare, very rare.
About general nature of trolling - it must relate to a fact that critique is much easier than doing something yourself ... It much easier to critique somebody's blog post, than to write one yourself It much easier to critique somebody's movie, than to make one yourself It much easier to critique somebody's blog work, than to do it yourself
Second aspect is aggression. And here I agree with Piotr, its very much stimulated by TV nowadays. If you look at modern movies and TV shows, there is target in them: to Win. To be on top. Almost no other options showed. You must be best, top, winner otherwise you're looser. "So" - such small troll thinks, - "how to be on top in the easiest way ? easy. Get everybody else below". Luckily, you can shut up trolls quite easily nowadays or just ignore them until they die on their own :)
In my opinion this trolling is everywhere, but only in internet we call it Trolling. E.g. When we listen to the people talking ab government and we hear only critiques and indignation, but because this is usually called:
EXPRESSION OF ONEs DISSATISFACTION.
Other way round if there are many people saying that black is white, and one person will say that black is black - they will usually be called Troll even though that they've just said the truth.
Or sometimes this is simply a person who asked not popular question, because all other people wanted to forget about this aspect.
Iza, Daniel, I agree with both of you. But I also think we start calling people trollers not only in the Internet. As you described - not always in a proper situation but still I think this word will become more and more popular in daily life. And I think it's good - especially in our country, where we are a nation that often complains instead of doing something.
Thumbs up for you all. I do not like people that are trolling. I think this word is adequate to the description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) Troll was a mythic creature that in many culture was described as: malicious, nasty, grumpy, disgruntled. For me that kind of people can also be called hater. Troll is some sort of evolution of word hater and for me is more accurate. Like Agnieszka wrote, this word is being used not only in internet.
as we discussing individual trolling , there is another kind of trolling - a corporate trolling: http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-google-responds-microsoft-scroogled-merchandise-20131121,0,3090744.story#axzz2lNeNP7wz
Daniel, nice example! Do you remember other corporate trolling - Samsung vs. Apple? This one conected with a rumor that Samsung paid $1.05 billion to Apple by sending 30 trucks containing five-cent coins? :) They have even a huge article on Wikipedia! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electronics_Co.,_Ltd.).
This 'Google trolling' was, unfortunately, fake, but I remember the buzz when the story and a photo broke out, but someone spoiled the party and announced that they did a simple money transfer :)
As for trolling itself, it could be divided into intentional and non-intentional types. I've been on some discussion forums, and I could observe the releationship between trolling in forums open for public and trolling in a closed group forum. Public ones are filled with people, who troll unintentionally (I suppose that these are kids, who do not understand rules of internet discussion and, as a consequence, ignore them), mixed with deliberate trolls - it's a mayhem :)
Private forum trolling is a kind of game played between users who usually know behaviour patterns of other ones and it could be much fun. Those 'troll discussions' get more spicy when someone gets caught in a trolling spiral, becoming an innocent target. That might be cruel, but boy - it's helluva fun and a milestone threads for future generations of one particular forum :)
Couple of months ago I read a quite interesting article, in which an author interviewed "his" most prolific troll. For some reason it's not on the website anymore, but thankfully you can still find it in Web Archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20130508132449/http://www.uni-watch.com/2013/04/19/an-interview-with-uni-watchs-most-prominent-troll/
Despite the fact that comments authored by the men (who identifies himself as "Joe 'Big Cock' Johnson") were pretty vile and even abusive, it turned out he actually is a fun of the site. He is really interested in its subject matter, doesn't have any ill feelings towards site's creator, and even seems to have a lot of respect for him. He doesn't share his views with the Joe Johnson persona he created (who is often racist and misogynistic). I think this fragment best summarize what he claims are his real intentions:
"[I do this] just to amuse myself. I still have a very sophomoric, immature sense of humor. I’ve always found cuss words to be funny. I find it particularly amusing when there’s a lot of shock value. Like, if you’re in front of a bunch of old people, or people from another generation, and you say something shocking, I find that amusing. And that’s a character flaw, I’m sure. But nevertheless, it was mostly about shocking people, mostly with vulgarities. When people see 'cunt' or 'twat' or something like that, those go beyond the typical 'fuck' or 'shit.'"
On his part the site's author seems to grow to actually like having "his" personal troll. He admits to missing "Joe", when the men don't post for an extended periods of time.
Don't get me wrong. My intention is not to vindicate the troll. He still is a men who posts awful things, fully conscious they can be hurtful to other people. I think however, the interview provides an interesting insight into his motivations.
Personally I never found a use for Internet's anonymity. First time I entered an Internet chat room (I was about 12 at the time) I chose an anonymous nick. That felt weird, so I left the chat room and came back as "Ludwik". Since then I always post as "Ludwik" or even "Ludwik Trammer". I think what I do on the Internet is an integral part of who I am, and I don't feel a need to create a separate Internet persona. On the other hand I think anonymity is vital for preservation of free speech and allowing political change. As a consequence we should fight any efforts to cease Internet anonymity. It's far better to have a free society, even for a price of having some trolls around.
1. Why do you think this is happening? Do you think people have a natural tendency for trolling?
It's hard to answer unequivocally. I always wonder why someone writes such things. I personally I could not do that. So maybe it is in human nature. This may effect of the anonymity and impunity. Maybe it’s just the usual malice, desire to improve themselves mood at the expense of another human?
2. What stimulates such behaviours (maybe this is not only about a person's character, but also comes from papers, TV news, etc.)?
Human is a social being. His behavior is largely affected by the environment - television, newspapers, etc. The more we see evil and hatred, never-ending disputes we are becoming the more aggressive. This may be reflected in trolling. But not only. The reasons may be - bad atmosphere at work, financial and family problems.
3. Have you ever been a victim of trolling (or have you trolled someone)?
No, I haven’t been troll. Mainly because I do not speak on the forums. Frankly speaking I use them occasionally seeking answers to a specific question. I never do that for someone else.
4. Do you see any positive sides of trolling?
Trolling is based on deliberate influencing others to ridicule or offend them - which results in a call to fight. It is anti-social behavior. I don’t see any positive sides of such behaviors. Is worth to remember that not every controversial and which might upset someone opinion is a form of trolling.
5. Do you think that removing anonymity from the internet would counteract trolling? If so, do you see any downsides of revealing your identity?
Maybe. However, referring to the comments of colleagues, I don’t think it’s the best solution. Each of us needs a little anonymity and should decide when to use it and when not.
Second video showed a brilliant idea! People need to log in via their precious FB or Twitter accounts and identify themselves. Maybe if it was the only way to login or comment it would deprive them of anonymity...? Can’t really understand why does this happen and why are they sometimes so cruel. They are probably very sad people, truly unhappy somewhere inside. They make other feel bad so that they could be satisfied for a moment. We should be sorry also for them…
1. Why do you think this is happening? Do you think people have a natural tendency for trolling? AND 2. What stimulates such behaviours (maybe this is not only about a person’s character, but also comes from papers, TV news, etc.)? First of all: There is a great difference between trolling to make someone mad and being a bully. Many people gain satisfaction when they’re behaving as if they are better, more intelligent and so on. Internet allows it, because we can create ourselves there. Sometimes it’s only a joke and people, who want to be “high and mighty” reacts with righteous indignation. And here is the key to that problem – reaction! 3. Have you ever been a victim of trolling (or have you trolled someone)?
To be honest I’m a troll to my friends when it comes to the topics connected with football. You need to write a controversial statement about the opposite team and…. http://i.imgur.com/3t63g.gif Why? We have known each other for many years so making fun of favourite teams is a part of our life. I’ve never been a victim of trolling, because I do not pay attention to what others write about me. 4. Do you see any positive sides of trolling?
There is nothing wrong in the irony and sarcasm, but threats and bulling must fought with. There was very interesting “car advertising war” (http://creativeadvertisingworld.com/advertising-wars-bmw-audi-subaru-bently/) and (http://nextnature.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/bmw-jaguar_scared_cat_530.jpg). For me it’s a kind of positive trolling. Look what Coca-Cola did with Pepsi commercial: http://www.nogarlicnoonions.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/coke-pepsi.jpg It’s still trolling! 5. Do you think that removing anonymity from the internet would counteract trolling? If so, do you see any downsides of revealing your identity?
Sure it will help with trolling, but is it better not to pay attention to trolls? Sue them, but do not answer them – there is no point in it. Removing anonymity would cause more damage than it would help, but it’s a much bigger topic.
Oh man this topic is really a river (or even the ocean). at first, I somehow disagree with the movie. They have presented only one type of troll - the one which needs to be "feeded" (a common saying how to win over them - 'do not feed the troll) and of course this is really a about them, they only write to make people starting a war over the internet , great meme about that: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png
this is what I call toxic trolling, and yes, for them it is a game...
but a game can be really much more interesting when you are not doing it to abuse someone or, quoting Batman, "Some Men Just Want to Watch the World Burn". I personally feel like a troll, making sophisticated jokes inside my company or with people I know (and I am sure they wont be upset at me.. much or long ;) and even it happens after some time they appreciate the jokes. Really, to troll someone in this way, you need to be smart and feel a lot of sarcasm (because why? because it is not about 'hot topics' like politic). The point is to find out this thick red line, which is way different for every person.
1. Why do you think this is happening? Do you think people have a natural tendency for trolling? If we are talking about that 'toxic troll' - yeah, Batman's quote again. 2. What stimulates such behaviours (maybe this is not only about a person's character, but also comes from papers, TV news, etc.)? Wanting to feel that they have influence on something? 3. Have you ever been a victim of trolling (or have you trolled someone)? In this way? never at purpose. 4. Do you see any positive sides of trolling? Sure - there can be a lot of pleasure when both sides accept this way of having fun and talking with intelligent person who can response you in return ;) 5. Do you think that removing anonymity from the internet would counteract trolling? If so, do you see any downsides of revealing your identity? To be honest - there are no anonoyms over the internet, everyone can be tracked. Example? Author of the website http://antykomor.pl/ Yes this is a different case. Youtube if recently (?) forcing people to show their real names instead of nicknames but still I am very sure that it is easy to create a fake accounts..
I had a blog once, this was me being young and foolish. Nowadays I tried to run a blog but didn't feel that much drive to write and also I had a problem with very snarky commenters that felt a very strong urge to ridicule everything I wrote. I believe these guys were trolls and made my blogging experience miserable. Unfortunately abstaining from writing on the blog is not the effective way to avoid trolls - I get hate filled comments on my public Facebook profile too. The only sure way seems to be reserving all commenting options only to friends and family, the trusted people that won't insult you just to have some fun. But wait, where's the fun in that? I very much like this side of the internet where you can meet new people and get interesting opinions on current topics. I feel like trolls are ruining that for me.
Answering the questions: 1. Why do you think this is happening? Do you think people have a natural tendency for trolling?
Great question and I wish I had an answer. The fact that people might have a natural tendency for trolling is really scary - that would mean we're mean (pun intended! :) by nature and this is a standard behaviour built into everyone from the very beginning. And I like to think that world is a nice place filled with nice people that only sometimes have worse days and frustrations that they cannot contain and pour onto other human beings. Otherwise, if people were in fact mean by standard, the world be an hostile place where you need to constantly fight for yourself and I actually am not sure I would like to live like that.
2. What stimulates such behaviours (maybe this is not only about a person's character, but also comes from papers, TV news, etc.)?
My picks: frustrations - personal life and job related, hidden anger - comes from being frustrated I guess, bad relationships with important people in one's life, including family and loved ones (if any), immaturity and emotional deficits like the lack of or the low levels of compassion, low self-esteem and last but not least - boredom.
3. Have you ever been a victim of trolling (or have you trolled someone)?
Like I stated it in the beginning of my post - I has a blog and have been a victim of trolling there. What's interesting is that in early days of blogging I'm pretty sure there were fewer trolls and mean people commenting. I have this hunch that the trolling problem is rising recently but don't have any solid research to prove it. Nowadays I have an open Facebook profile where any registered user can comment. I like it open to everyone, because it often happens that someone completely unknown to me will have an interesting comment, good advice, different perspective on the issue. Unfortunately I get trolled here too, but not as severely as it would happen on the blog.
4. Do you see any positive sides of trolling?
Unfortunately I don't see any. I think that honestly trolls ruin internet for the all of us.
The last question didn't get into my comment due to length reasons:
5. Do you think that removing anonymity from the internet would counteract trolling? If so, do you see any downsides of revealing your identity?
I believe the lack of anonymity on Facebook (or rather the intended one, as you can still register yourself with fake identity and don't get caught or have an account deleted - even so, you can do it again as Facebook rarely bans people based on IP addresses) is the partial reason for the lower level of hate in comments on my FB wall, than I would have on the blog (where you can be as anonymous as you wish). Having to sign yourself with actual identity might force people to think twice - but I honestly saw people writing or doing some awful, hate-filled things with their name slapped in top of it, and it didn't stop them. Although the whole situation was morbidly hilarious, seeing someone naming themselves Christian and sharing a lot of religious messages on their FB walls and at the same time writing to someone else they wish they were dead or dying in terrible pains. So, removing anonymity helps. But are there down sides to lack of anonymity? I say - at the moment no. There's this proverb: "Only guilty people have something to hide". And I don't feel guilty, I don't have much to hide, honestly much of the stupid things I've done is already on the internet (and this is why I probably won't go into politics :) So, maybe for guilty people hiding their shameful secrets that would be a problem, but for me it isn't. At the same time I'm very aware that governments love to spy on it's people and it's getting better at doing that. So lack of anonymity might be a concern in a very near future for the completely troll-unrelated reasons.
I don't think that there is universal reason for trolling, as there is no simple reason for people wanting to communicate with each other. As for natural tendency - I think it's not true. Human, as a race, has the power to sway most of it's born with nature attributes. Form those, urge for trolling is one of the least hard to maintain. Calling it “natural tendency” is the same as treating idiocy as an illness.
What stimulates such behavior? Probably other people. Someone could say – the society, but society is empty word, when there is no people creating it.
I've been trolled online dozens of times, as I worked as an editor in IT magazine (online and paper). There I learned my lesson about people in Internet. It required some time to create mental resistance to trolling. And the most interesting thing in it was, that the most happy editor is the one, who could read criticism written in no-trolling manner. It's nice to feel some humanity from time to time :).
There are no positive sides of trolling in aspects of human communication. Removing anonymity would lessen trolling problem, but still there would be people dumb enough to troll everything they see. And Internet is in no way to be a non-anonymous place. It's always problem with people, not with computers. Idea of Internet is connected with anonymity, as knowledge tends to be anonymous.
The fact that blew my mind when I read it back in the day was that the word trolling did not come from the word troll as in the guy who lives under a bridge but rather from a fishing technique where you use a lot of baits and wait for the fish to come to you. Whoever thought of this word to descibe this emerging behaviour should be given the liberty to change the name of anything he wishes. It's simply brilliant.
Much and more was said above about the impact of trolling but what I find amazing is how the word changed definition recently. Trolling used to be clever and entertaining. It was about representing controversial ideas and waiting for a response. Much like actual trolling. Nowadays this word is used to describe people who use foul language on the internet forums. Racism, sexism, you name it. To me it's not real trolling, it's edging closer to being an actual troll. It' being a child who craves for attention. To me am excellent example, which never fails to crack me up when I see it executed well is teasing a grammar nazi. Afer him correcting several obviously intentional grammatical errors the troll writes "Trolling is a art" to which a typical response is something along the lines of "an art" followed by a string of insults. Well, I think trolling can be a art.
1. Why do you think this is happening? Do you think people have a natural tendency for trolling?
I think it's a an attempt to draw attention to themselves, I believe that kind of people are unhappy in some point.
2. What stimulates such behaviours (maybe this is not only about a person's character, but also comes from papers, TV news, etc.)?
I think there are such stimuli as unhappiness, lonelyness, maybe also some anger that needs to be discharged.
3. Have you ever been a victim of trolling (or have you trolled someone)?
No, I haven't.
4. Do you see any positive sides of trolling?
No, joking is OK, but it's hard for me to imagine any positive sides of trolling.
5. Do you think that removing anonymity from the internet would counteract trolling? If so, do you see any downsides of revealing your identity
Yes, taking psychological knowledge into consideration, I can say that lack of anonymity would definitely reduce trolling, because anonymity can lead to rise of aggression. On the other hand, I don't like the idea of revealing my identity, because I value my privacy.
1. Why do you think this is happening? Do you think people have a natural tendency for trolling?
ReplyDeleteNot all people, but some of them – yes. I think that it is a matter of people's personality - some like to make others upset, perceiving it as a chance to rise their self-esteem.
2. What stimulates such behaviours (maybe this is not only about a person's character, but also comes from papers, TV news, etc.)?
I think that media (especially television) use a language of hate more and more often. There is no place for a meaningful debate, there is no space or willingness to consider arguments of the opponents. Media exploit aggressiveness, vulgarity and offensiveness, because it is salable, more catchy and increases a viewership significantly.
3. Have you ever been a victim of trolling (or have you trolled someone)?
No, I have not, mainly because I do not take a part in the internet discussions, and bullying is something against my rules and values.
4. Do you see any positive sides of trolling?
If we understand trolling as the phenomena which main aim is to provoke unnecessary quarrels, using personal attacks and insulting others, then I think with a great certainty that there are no positives sides of trolling.
5. Do you think that removing anonymity from the internet would counteract trolling? If so, do you see any downsides of revealing your identity?
Maybe some of the trolls would decide not to create offensive and harassing comments. However, I think that it will not stop people from doing it completely, because many of them derive a real satisfaction from insulting and offending. On the one hand anonymity is good because we can say what we feel or think and we are not exposed to social ostracism and conventions. On the other hand, and what it is proved by the trolling phenomena, without any external control people offend and criticize others and will be doing that. It can be linked to disability to supress negative emotions. Considering all of that I think that the lack of the anonymity in the internet is not that harmful and can lead to situations where people will behave responsibly.
I will start from the end :)
ReplyDeleteRemoving anonymity from the Internet would help to fight against aggressive trolling, but only to an extend. The main problem, I believe, is a nature of Internet itself - its distance. If troll sits thousands miles from his target - it does not really matter whether he use real name or fake one. Such troll feels he's unreachable = untouchable.
Still the best strategy to fight against trolls , and I experienced that myself a couple of times, is not to feed them. If you're paying no attention what so ever to troll - he gets bored and leaves eventually.
Sometimes, what we call trolling, could be a start of an interesting and potentially useful debate. But such cases are rare, very rare.
About general nature of trolling - it must relate to a fact that critique is much easier than doing something yourself ...
It much easier to critique somebody's blog post, than to write one yourself
It much easier to critique somebody's movie, than to make one yourself
It much easier to critique somebody's blog work, than to do it yourself
Second aspect is aggression. And here I agree with Piotr, its very much stimulated by TV nowadays. If you look at modern movies and TV shows, there is target in them: to Win. To be on top.
Almost no other options showed. You must be best, top, winner otherwise you're looser.
"So" - such small troll thinks, - "how to be on top in the easiest way ? easy. Get everybody else below".
Luckily, you can shut up trolls quite easily nowadays or just ignore them until they die on their own :)
I totally agree with Daniel:
DeleteIt is much easier to critique, than do something.
In my opinion this trolling is everywhere, but only in internet we call it Trolling. E.g. When we listen to the people talking ab government and we hear only critiques and indignation, but because this is usually called:
EXPRESSION OF ONEs DISSATISFACTION.
Other way round if there are many people saying that black is white, and one person will say that black is black - they will usually be called Troll even though that they've just said the truth.
Or sometimes this is simply a person who asked not popular question, because all other people wanted to forget about this aspect.
Iza, Daniel, I agree with both of you. But I also think we start calling people trollers not only in the Internet. As you described - not always in a proper situation but still I think this word will become more and more popular in daily life.
DeleteAnd I think it's good - especially in our country, where we are a nation that often complains instead of doing something.
Thumbs up for you all. I do not like people that are trolling. I think this word is adequate to the description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
DeleteTroll was a mythic creature that in many culture was described as: malicious, nasty, grumpy, disgruntled. For me that kind of people can also be called hater. Troll is some sort of evolution of word hater and for me is more accurate. Like Agnieszka wrote, this word is being used not only in internet.
as we discussing individual trolling , there is another kind of trolling - a corporate trolling: http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-google-responds-microsoft-scroogled-merchandise-20131121,0,3090744.story#axzz2lNeNP7wz
ReplyDeleteDaniel, nice example!
DeleteDo you remember other corporate trolling - Samsung vs. Apple? This one conected with a rumor that Samsung paid $1.05 billion to Apple by sending 30 trucks containing five-cent coins? :) They have even a huge article on Wikipedia! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electronics_Co.,_Ltd.).
This 'Google trolling' was, unfortunately, fake, but I remember the buzz when the story and a photo broke out, but someone spoiled the party and announced that they did a simple money transfer :)
DeleteAs for trolling itself, it could be divided into intentional and non-intentional types.
I've been on some discussion forums, and I could observe the releationship between trolling in forums open for public and trolling in a closed group forum. Public ones are filled with people, who troll unintentionally (I suppose that these are kids, who do not understand rules of internet discussion and, as a consequence, ignore them), mixed with deliberate trolls - it's a mayhem :)
Private forum trolling is a kind of game played between users who usually know behaviour patterns of other ones and it could be much fun. Those 'troll discussions' get more spicy when someone gets caught in a trolling spiral, becoming an innocent target. That might be cruel, but boy - it's helluva fun and a milestone threads for future generations of one particular forum :)
Couple of months ago I read a quite interesting article, in which an author interviewed "his" most prolific troll. For some reason it's not on the website anymore, but thankfully you can still find it in Web Archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20130508132449/http://www.uni-watch.com/2013/04/19/an-interview-with-uni-watchs-most-prominent-troll/
ReplyDeleteDespite the fact that comments authored by the men (who identifies himself as "Joe 'Big Cock' Johnson") were pretty vile and even abusive, it turned out he actually is a fun of the site. He is really interested in its subject matter, doesn't have any ill feelings towards site's creator, and even seems to have a lot of respect for him. He doesn't share his views with the Joe Johnson persona he created (who is often racist and misogynistic). I think this fragment best summarize what he claims are his real intentions:
"[I do this] just to amuse myself. I still have a very sophomoric, immature sense of humor. I’ve always found cuss words to be funny. I find it particularly amusing when there’s a lot of shock value. Like, if you’re in front of a bunch of old people, or people from another generation, and you say something shocking, I find that amusing. And that’s a character flaw, I’m sure. But nevertheless, it was mostly about shocking people, mostly with vulgarities. When people see 'cunt' or 'twat' or something like that, those go beyond the typical 'fuck' or 'shit.'"
On his part the site's author seems to grow to actually like having "his" personal troll. He admits to missing "Joe", when the men don't post for an extended periods of time.
Don't get me wrong. My intention is not to vindicate the troll. He still is a men who posts awful things, fully conscious they can be hurtful to other people. I think however, the interview provides an interesting insight into his motivations.
Personally I never found a use for Internet's anonymity. First time I entered an Internet chat room (I was about 12 at the time) I chose an anonymous nick. That felt weird, so I left the chat room and came back as "Ludwik". Since then I always post as "Ludwik" or even "Ludwik Trammer". I think what I do on the Internet is an integral part of who I am, and I don't feel a need to create a separate Internet persona. On the other hand I think anonymity is vital for preservation of free speech and allowing political change. As a consequence we should fight any efforts to cease Internet anonymity. It's far better to have a free society, even for a price of having some trolls around.
1. Why do you think this is happening? Do you think people have a natural tendency for trolling?
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to answer unequivocally. I always wonder why someone writes such things. I personally I could not do that. So maybe it is in human nature. This may effect of the anonymity and impunity. Maybe it’s just the usual malice, desire to improve themselves mood at the expense of another human?
2. What stimulates such behaviours (maybe this is not only about a person's character, but also comes from papers, TV news, etc.)?
Human is a social being. His behavior is largely affected by the environment - television, newspapers, etc. The more we see evil and hatred, never-ending disputes we are becoming the more aggressive. This may be reflected in trolling. But not only. The reasons may be - bad atmosphere at work, financial and family problems.
3. Have you ever been a victim of trolling (or have you trolled someone)?
No, I haven’t been troll. Mainly because I do not speak on the forums. Frankly speaking I use them occasionally seeking answers to a specific question. I never do that for someone else.
4. Do you see any positive sides of trolling?
Trolling is based on deliberate influencing others to ridicule or offend them - which results in a call to fight. It is anti-social behavior. I don’t see any positive sides of such behaviors.
Is worth to remember that not every controversial and which might upset someone opinion is a form of trolling.
5. Do you think that removing anonymity from the internet would counteract trolling? If so, do you see any downsides of revealing your identity?
Maybe. However, referring to the comments of colleagues, I don’t think it’s the best solution. Each of us needs a little anonymity and should decide when to use it and when not.
Second video showed a brilliant idea! People need to log in via their precious FB or Twitter accounts and identify themselves. Maybe if it was the only way to login or comment it would deprive them of anonymity...?
ReplyDeleteCan’t really understand why does this happen and why are they sometimes so cruel. They are probably very sad people, truly unhappy somewhere inside. They make other feel bad so that they could be satisfied for a moment. We should be sorry also for them…
1. Why do you think this is happening? Do you think people have a natural tendency for trolling?
ReplyDeleteAND 2. What stimulates such behaviours (maybe this is not only about a person’s character, but also comes from papers, TV news, etc.)?
First of all: There is a great difference between trolling to make someone mad and being a bully. Many people gain satisfaction when they’re behaving as if they are better, more intelligent and so on. Internet allows it, because we can create ourselves there. Sometimes it’s only a joke and people, who want to be “high and mighty” reacts with righteous indignation. And here is the key to that problem – reaction!
3. Have you ever been a victim of trolling (or have you trolled someone)?
To be honest I’m a troll to my friends when it comes to the topics connected with football. You need to write a controversial statement about the opposite team and…. http://i.imgur.com/3t63g.gif
Why? We have known each other for many years so making fun of favourite teams is a part of our life. I’ve never been a victim of trolling, because I do not pay attention to what others write about me.
4. Do you see any positive sides of trolling?
There is nothing wrong in the irony and sarcasm, but threats and bulling must fought with. There was very interesting “car advertising war” (http://creativeadvertisingworld.com/advertising-wars-bmw-audi-subaru-bently/) and (http://nextnature.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/bmw-jaguar_scared_cat_530.jpg). For me it’s a kind of positive trolling. Look what Coca-Cola did with Pepsi commercial: http://www.nogarlicnoonions.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/coke-pepsi.jpg
It’s still trolling!
5. Do you think that removing anonymity from the internet would counteract trolling? If so, do you see any downsides of revealing your identity?
Sure it will help with trolling, but is it better not to pay attention to trolls? Sue them, but do not answer them – there is no point in it. Removing anonymity would cause more damage than it would help, but it’s a much bigger topic.
Oh man this topic is really a river (or even the ocean).
ReplyDeleteat first, I somehow disagree with the movie. They have presented only one type of troll - the one which needs to be "feeded" (a common saying how to win over them - 'do not feed the troll) and of course this is really a about them, they only write to make people starting a war over the internet , great meme about that:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png
this is what I call toxic trolling, and yes, for them it is a game...
but a game can be really much more interesting when you are not doing it to abuse someone or, quoting Batman, "Some Men Just Want to Watch the World Burn".
I personally feel like a troll, making sophisticated jokes inside my company or with people I know (and I am sure they wont be upset at me.. much or long ;) and even it happens after some time they appreciate the jokes. Really, to troll someone in this way, you need to be smart and feel a lot of sarcasm (because why? because it is not about 'hot topics' like politic). The point is to find out this thick red line, which is way different for every person.
1. Why do you think this is happening? Do you think people have a natural tendency for trolling?
If we are talking about that 'toxic troll' - yeah, Batman's quote again.
2. What stimulates such behaviours (maybe this is not only about a person's character, but also comes from papers, TV news, etc.)?
Wanting to feel that they have influence on something?
3. Have you ever been a victim of trolling (or have you trolled someone)?
In this way? never at purpose.
4. Do you see any positive sides of trolling?
Sure - there can be a lot of pleasure when both sides accept this way of having fun and talking with intelligent person who can response you in return ;)
5. Do you think that removing anonymity from the internet would counteract trolling? If so, do you see any downsides of revealing your identity?
To be honest - there are no anonoyms over the internet, everyone can be tracked. Example? Author of the website http://antykomor.pl/ Yes this is a different case. Youtube if recently (?) forcing people to show their real names instead of nicknames but still I am very sure that it is easy to create a fake accounts..
I had a blog once, this was me being young and foolish. Nowadays I tried to run a blog but didn't feel that much drive to write and also I had a problem with very snarky commenters that felt a very strong urge to ridicule everything I wrote. I believe these guys were trolls and made my blogging experience miserable. Unfortunately abstaining from writing on the blog is not the effective way to avoid trolls - I get hate filled comments on my public Facebook profile too. The only sure way seems to be reserving all commenting options only to friends and family, the trusted people that won't insult you just to have some fun. But wait, where's the fun in that? I very much like this side of the internet where you can meet new people and get interesting opinions on current topics. I feel like trolls are ruining that for me.
ReplyDeleteAnswering the questions:
1. Why do you think this is happening? Do you think people have a natural tendency for trolling?
Great question and I wish I had an answer. The fact that people might have a natural tendency for trolling is really scary - that would mean we're mean (pun intended! :) by nature and this is a standard behaviour built into everyone from the very beginning. And I like to think that world is a nice place filled with nice people that only sometimes have worse days and frustrations that they cannot contain and pour onto other human beings. Otherwise, if people were in fact mean by standard, the world be an hostile place where you need to constantly fight for yourself and I actually am not sure I would like to live like that.
2. What stimulates such behaviours (maybe this is not only about a person's character, but also comes from papers, TV news, etc.)?
My picks: frustrations - personal life and job related, hidden anger - comes from being frustrated I guess, bad relationships with important people in one's life, including family and loved ones (if any), immaturity and emotional deficits like the lack of or the low levels of compassion, low self-esteem and last but not least - boredom.
3. Have you ever been a victim of trolling (or have you trolled someone)?
Like I stated it in the beginning of my post - I has a blog and have been a victim of trolling there. What's interesting is that in early days of blogging I'm pretty sure there were fewer trolls and mean people commenting. I have this hunch that the trolling problem is rising recently but don't have any solid research to prove it. Nowadays I have an open Facebook profile where any registered user can comment. I like it open to everyone, because it often happens that someone completely unknown to me will have an interesting comment, good advice, different perspective on the issue. Unfortunately I get trolled here too, but not as severely as it would happen on the blog.
4. Do you see any positive sides of trolling?
Unfortunately I don't see any. I think that honestly trolls ruin internet for the all of us.
The last question didn't get into my comment due to length reasons:
Delete5. Do you think that removing anonymity from the internet would counteract trolling? If so, do you see any downsides of revealing your identity?
I believe the lack of anonymity on Facebook (or rather the intended one, as you can still register yourself with fake identity and don't get caught or have an account deleted - even so, you can do it again as Facebook rarely bans people based on IP addresses) is the partial reason for the lower level of hate in comments on my FB wall, than I would have on the blog (where you can be as anonymous as you wish). Having to sign yourself with actual identity might force people to think twice - but I honestly saw people writing or doing some awful, hate-filled things with their name slapped in top of it, and it didn't stop them. Although the whole situation was morbidly hilarious, seeing someone naming themselves Christian and sharing a lot of religious messages on their FB walls and at the same time writing to someone else they wish they were dead or dying in terrible pains.
So, removing anonymity helps. But are there down sides to lack of anonymity? I say - at the moment no. There's this proverb: "Only guilty people have something to hide". And I don't feel guilty, I don't have much to hide, honestly much of the stupid things I've done is already on the internet (and this is why I probably won't go into politics :) So, maybe for guilty people hiding their shameful secrets that would be a problem, but for me it isn't.
At the same time I'm very aware that governments love to spy on it's people and it's getting better at doing that. So lack of anonymity might be a concern in a very near future for the completely troll-unrelated reasons.
I don't think that there is universal reason for trolling, as there is no simple reason for people wanting to communicate with each other. As for natural tendency - I think it's not true. Human, as a race, has the power to sway most of it's born with nature attributes. Form those, urge for trolling is one of the least hard to maintain. Calling it “natural tendency” is the same as treating idiocy as an illness.
ReplyDeleteWhat stimulates such behavior? Probably other people. Someone could say – the society, but society is empty word, when there is no people creating it.
I've been trolled online dozens of times, as I worked as an editor in IT magazine (online and paper). There I learned my lesson about people in Internet. It required some time to create mental resistance to trolling. And the most interesting thing in it was, that the most happy editor is the one, who could read criticism written in no-trolling manner. It's nice to feel some humanity from time to time :).
There are no positive sides of trolling in aspects of human communication.
Removing anonymity would lessen trolling problem, but still there would be people dumb enough to troll everything they see. And Internet is in no way to be a non-anonymous place. It's always problem with people, not with computers. Idea of Internet is connected with anonymity, as knowledge tends to be anonymous.
The fact that blew my mind when I read it back in the day was that the word trolling did not come from the word troll as in the guy who lives under a bridge but rather from a fishing technique where you use a lot of baits and wait for the fish to come to you.
ReplyDeleteWhoever thought of this word to descibe this emerging behaviour should be given the liberty to change the name of anything he wishes. It's simply brilliant.
Much and more was said above about the impact of trolling but what I find amazing is how the word changed definition recently. Trolling used to be clever and entertaining. It was about representing controversial ideas and waiting for a response. Much like actual trolling.
Nowadays this word is used to describe people who use foul language on the internet forums. Racism, sexism, you name it. To me it's not real trolling, it's edging closer to being an actual troll. It' being a child who craves for attention.
To me am excellent example, which never fails to crack me up when I see it executed well is teasing a grammar nazi. Afer him correcting several obviously intentional grammatical errors the troll writes "Trolling is a art" to which a typical response is something along the lines of "an art" followed by a string of insults. Well, I think trolling can be a art.
1. Why do you think this is happening? Do you think people have a natural tendency for trolling?
ReplyDeleteI think it's a an attempt to draw attention to themselves, I believe that kind of people are unhappy in some point.
2. What stimulates such behaviours (maybe this is not only about a person's character, but also comes from papers, TV news, etc.)?
I think there are such stimuli as unhappiness, lonelyness, maybe also some anger that needs to be discharged.
3. Have you ever been a victim of trolling (or have you trolled someone)?
No, I haven't.
4. Do you see any positive sides of trolling?
No, joking is OK, but it's hard for me to imagine any positive sides of trolling.
5. Do you think that removing anonymity from the internet would counteract trolling? If so, do you see any downsides of revealing your identity
Yes, taking psychological knowledge into consideration, I can say that lack of anonymity would definitely reduce trolling, because anonymity can lead to rise of aggression. On the other hand, I don't like the idea of revealing my identity, because I value my privacy.